1.Susan Clancy — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross
444 linesBAILIFF: This court is now in session. You may be seated.
COURT CLERK: May it please, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Yes, please.
COURT CLERK: Your Honor, I call the Commonwealth of the matter of Commonwealth versus Lindsay Clancy is currently present. She is represented by Attorney Kevin Reddington. The Commonwealth is represented by Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Sprague and Assistant District Attorney Shanan Buckingham.
THE COURT: All right. Well, good morning, everyone. Good morning, counsel.
MR. REDDINGTON: Good morning.
THE COURT: Good morning, Ms. Clancy.
MS. CLANCY: Good morning, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Before we start, could I see everybody talk about today's schedule?
THE COURT: All right. Counsel, are we ready for the jury?
MR. REDDINGTON: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: Yes.
BAILIFF: All rise, please.
BAILIFF: Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. All persons having anything to do before the Honorable William Sullivan, Justice of the Superior Court now sitting in Plymouth within the Commonwealth, draw near and give your attendance and you shall be heard. God save the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. This court is now in session. Please be seated.
COURT CLERK: Good morning, Your Honor. May I proceed?
THE COURT: Yes, please.
COURT CLERK: Your Honor, before the court today, we have a continuation of a jury trial in the matter of Commonwealth versus Lindsay Clancy. Ms. Clancy is present. She is represented by Attorney Kevin Reddington, and the Commonwealth is represented by Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Sprague and Assistant District Attorney Shanan Buckingham.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Well, good morning, everyone.
JURORS: Good morning.
THE COURT: All right. Nice to see everyone. You know I'm gonna ask you those questions, then we'll talk a little bit about today's schedule. So first question: has any member of the jury read, seen, heard, or overheard anything from any source about any aspect of this case that would affect your ability to be fair and impartial as a juror?
JURORS: No.
THE COURT: Next question. Is there any other serious matter of concern bearing on your service as a juror in this case that anybody needs to bring to my attention?
JURORS: No.
THE COURT: All right. Again, thank you for following those instructions. And what I wanted... We'll talk a little bit about today's schedule. We're at the point in the trial where I think, as you saw a little bit yesterday, there's kind of some stop and starts that go through them, and I think we're gonna have a similar day today. All right. So I appreciate your patience with this as I deal with counsel about some things that I have to speak to outside of your presence. But as you see, the case is moving forward and those kind of gaps or the stops that you see are part of the reason. It keeps the case moving. So I think the schedule today will be similar in some ways to what we had yesterday. All right?
THE COURT: And so with that, we're gonna now return to the defendant who's presenting her case at this time. Attorney Reddington.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you. Call Sue Clancy, please.
MR. REDDINGTON: Yeah, she should be in the hallway.
THE COURT: Hi, good morning.
SUSAN CLANCY: Good morning.
THE COURT: I'm just gonna ask you to speak into that microphone. Keep your voice up if you could. All right. Counsel.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you. Good morning.
SUSAN CLANCY: Good morning.
MR. REDDINGTON: If you could, could I ask you to keep your voice up so the jurors can hear you as well? Thank you. And just tell us your name and spell it, please.
SUSAN CLANCY: Susan Clancy. S-U-S-A-N C-L-A-N-C-Y.
MR. REDDINGTON: And what town do you live in?
SUSAN CLANCY: Scituate.
MR. REDDINGTON: And you're married to Chris Clancy?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And both you and Chris are mother and father of Patrick Clancy?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: And he was one of five people that were with Lindsay when she died?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes. Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: Tell us what your relationship was with Lindsay, how you knew her, and things just as background.
SUSAN CLANCY: Yeah. Lindsay married my son, Patrick, and we had a very good relationship.
MR. REDDINGTON: And did you have occasion to go to their home—
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... in Weymouth on occasion?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes, I did.
MR. REDDINGTON: And then in Duxbury as well?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: And obviously you and your husband were the grandparents of the three little kids.
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And, well, how was your relationship with the babies?
SUSAN CLANCY: Beautiful.
MR. REDDINGTON: And tell us how frequently, to your memory, you were able to visit with your son, Lindsay, and of course, your grandchildren.
SUSAN CLANCY: At least a couple times a month we would see them.
MR. REDDINGTON: At some point... Oh, by the way, what do you do for work?
SUSAN CLANCY: RN.
MR. REDDINGTON: I'm sorry, an RN?
SUSAN CLANCY: An RN.
MR. REDDINGTON: And what type of, any focus—
SUSAN CLANCY: I worked in the labor and delivery room for about 38 years.
MR. REDDINGTON: 38 years in labor and delivery?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: Helping women that were having babies.
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: And obviously you kept up with the studies and continuing education and things?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes, I did.
MR. REDDINGTON: To that extent, in your capacity as an RN with 38, well, back then it would've been 35 years of experience, I think—
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... fair to say that you, as I said, you would keep up with all of recent developments in postpartum psychosis, postpartum depression, all of that?
SUSAN CLANCY: Somewhat, but I mainly just was in the delivery room itself.
MR. REDDINGTON: So were you aware of the various physicians that were in the forefront, if you will, of postpartum studies as it relates to medicine?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And would one of the people that you were interested in be a person by the name of Dr. Meg Spinelli?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And can you tell us who Meg Spinelli is?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't really know Meg Spinelli well. We've spoken a couple of times. I believe she specializes in postpartum mental health.
MR. REDDINGTON: And have you met with her before?
SUSAN CLANCY: Not in person.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay. Did you at some point ask Dr. Spinelli to help out at your hospital in, I guess, they call it a rounds lecture?
SUSAN CLANCY: I asked her to bring on her experience and education in that area and share it with my colleagues.
MR. REDDINGTON: And did she do that?
SUSAN CLANCY: She did.
MR. REDDINGTON: And as time went by, dealing with your job, your family, your son, daughter-in-law, grandchildren, did you notice in 2022 after Callan was born any change in the personality, if you will, of Lindsay?
SUSAN CLANCY: Several months after that I did.
MR. REDDINGTON: Would that be sometime in the fall?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And can you tell the jurors, being as close as you were with the family... Well, let me back up. As a mother-in-law, did you have any observation to observe Lindsay with her kids?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Can you tell the jurors about how you saw her acting with her children as a mother?
SUSAN CLANCY: She was very nurturing, very loving. She was a wonderful mom. Wonderful.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did you ever see her treat her middle son, Dawson, bad because she didn't like him?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did she love Dawson in your opinion?
SUSAN CLANCY: She loved her children, all of them, very, very much.
MR. REDDINGTON: And during that period of time in, let's say, October, November of 2022, what did you observe about Lindsay?
SUSAN CLANCY: She reached out to me in November and told me that she felt unwell.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did she describe any symptoms for you?
SUSAN CLANCY: She did.
MR. REDDINGTON: Tell the jurors what she said.
SUSAN CLANCY: She felt—mostly she had insomnia. She was losing her appetite. She was very anxious and sad.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did she tell you that she was seeing doctors?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And at some point did you recommend—did she come to you and ask you for help regarding seeing a doctor?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yeah, she asked for my support.
MR. REDDINGTON: And did you—you obviously gave it to her?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And what did you do to make any recommendations for her?
SUSAN CLANCY: I reached out to my colleagues, who were running a clinic for women that were struggling postpartum.
MR. REDDINGTON: Would that be the South Shore?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes, correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: And at some point as a result of your intervention was a nurse practitioner, Julie Hall, agreeing to step in and help out?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did Lindsay see Julie?
SUSAN CLANCY: I believe she did.
MR. REDDINGTON: And you really pretty much were out of the mix at that point. You basically made the connection, knew that she was gone there, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did you find that Lindsay was interested at all times in trying to get better and see doctors?
SUSAN CLANCY: Very much so.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did you find at all, or do you have an opinion with your observations of Lindsay as to whether or not she was offered help and would just spurn it and not see doctors and not have treatment?
SUSAN CLANCY: She was begging for help.
MR. REDDINGTON: And during that period of time, you were there for her by text and by telephone and in person?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: Now, during that time that you were, let's say November and into December, the holiday season. Do you recall the holidays for 2022?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Can you tell us, was that a fun time for the Clancys?
SUSAN CLANCY: Lindsay was struggling. We were all very concerned.
MR. REDDINGTON: And you knew in January, New Year's actually, that she ended up going—
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... to McLean Hospital?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: You know that she'd eventually get out of the McLean Hospital?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Fair to say that you and Lindsay, as I said, communicated a lot by text messaging, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes. Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: So I'm gonna approach you with a extraction report. This is a report that is done by the DA's office or the state police, with an, on what's called Cellebrite, where they can go into... Did they examine your phone?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MR. REDDINGTON: They examined Lindsay's phone in obtaining texts. Have you seen the texts?
SUSAN CLANCY: I think so.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay. I'm gonna approach you with the extraction report. Okay. And if you can just take a look and see if your telephone number is on there, just for foundation purposes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Or if you re— it is, okay. And just quickly flip through and see if you recognize those texts. You don't have to look at all of them, that's for sure.
MR. REDDINGTON: Are they fair to be texts between you and Lindsay?
SUSAN CLANCY: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay. Your Honor, I'm not gonna go through each and every text. What I'm gonna suggest is I would offer this, and then the jurors would be able to look at what they wish.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Your Honor, Commonwealth just makes the same objection previously made about cumulative effects.
THE COURT: All right. Over the Commonwealth's objection, that may be admitted.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you.
COURT REPORTER: Exhibit 279.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you very much.
THE COURT: All right. Commonwealth.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Good morning.
SUSAN CLANCY: Good morning.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So you indicated that you've, were a labor and delivery nurse for 38 years?
SUSAN CLANCY: Mm-hmm.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And what hospital was that?
SUSAN CLANCY: South Shore Hospital.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And early on in the defendant's career, did you work with her?
SUSAN CLANCY: Briefly.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And she then went to Mass General, correct?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yeah, she was a student at the time.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And you stated that you are aware of a doctor named Meg Spinelli, correct?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Did you reach out to her in this case?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember exactly how she and I connected. I don't recall.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Well, you indicated that you connected with her in a professional capacity to have her come to your hospital, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: But as far as her role in this case with the defendant, did you reach out to her for that?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't think I did. I don't recall.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now, you said that you began to notice some issues in—well, defense counsel said October, November. But fair to say you weren't aware of what was going on until she texted you—
SUSAN CLANCY: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: … on November 16th when she was—
SUSAN CLANCY: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: … at the emergency room?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And that was at South Shore Hospital?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you actually met her there at the emergency room?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Was she by herself or with Patrick?
SUSAN CLANCY: She was by herself.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Did you know how she got there?
SUSAN CLANCY: She drove.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: She drove herself to the hospital?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And she was in the emergency room for a while, correct?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't know how long. Probably an hour, maybe two hours.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Well, you went down when you knew she was there, sat with her for a little bit, went back upstairs to your… 'Cause you were working that day, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct. I wasn't able to go down immediately. I had to wait about an hour and a half, and then I went down.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And then you sat with her for a little bit, went back up to work, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And then you came back down at some point before she was discharged?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
THE COURT: Counsel, can I see you at sidebar just very briefly?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So Mrs. Clancy, you came down to the emergency room and you sat with her for a while, correct?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And did she tell you why she was there?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And fair to say she indicated to you that she was having trouble sleeping, and she had some heart palpitations?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And that's what brought her to the emergency room to get checked out?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Did she tell you that she had consumed a weed gummy before going to the ER that day?
SUSAN CLANCY: She did not.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And in your experience as a nurse, is that sometimes a reaction to THC or CBD or some sort of weed, that somebody might have a faster heartbeat?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't know.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now when she was in the emergency room, she was seen by a doctor and provided some medication. Were you there when the doctor was there?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you're aware that the doctor, the ER doctor, gave her some trazodone to help her sleep?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Because that's what she was really concerned about, right? To sleep.
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And when she left the emergency room, did you call her an Uber or have Pat come and get her or call your husband to come get her?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: She left in her own car, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so fair to say after that ER visit, you remained in pretty constant contact with her, at least via text message?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Right? And that you would check in with her pretty much daily, and that's all in these texts?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now— You were familiar with the perinatal behavioral health clinic because of your work at South Shore Hospital—
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ... correct?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so the person actually that you connected with first was not Julie Paul, was it?
SUSAN CLANCY: No, it was one of the midwives that I was working with.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And her name is Nanette?
SUSAN CLANCY: I think so.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so did she provide you with Julie Paul's contact information?
SUSAN CLANCY: She suggested Julie.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And as a result of the suggestion, you reached out to Julie with Lindsay's permission, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you said that at that point you made the contact, knew she had spoken to Julie and you kind of stepped back from the clinic.
SUSAN CLANCY: Mm-hmm. Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: You're aware Julie Paul is one of the only prescribers that the defendant encountered that's not personally named in a civil lawsuit that's pending, don't you?
SUSAN CLANCY: I'm not sure.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now, so the ER visit's on the 16th. A contact is made with Julie Paul on November 20th, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: That sounds right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And that would have been your phone call to her first?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember exactly.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: In the time period while you knew she was going and getting ... going to see providers and meeting with Julie and going to the clinic, did you offer to help out more with the kids?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: You were still working full time at that time, weren't you?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So fair to say it was kind of limited based on your schedule?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Did you have a normal schedule that you worked at that time period?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't know what you mean.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Well, as a nurse, did you work day shifts? Did you work evenings?
SUSAN CLANCY: I worked the day shift.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. So did you offer to watch the kids at nighttime?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember exactly.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Did the kids come to stay at your house overnight so that she could get some sleep?
SUSAN CLANCY: No, they didn't.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Fair to say you offered and she didn't want the kids to come to your house, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: No, that's not right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Well, did they ever sleep over your house?
SUSAN CLANCY: No, they didn't.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And Cora was five, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes, correct. She turned five that December.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So at any point they never stayed over?
SUSAN CLANCY: We decided together it was best for them to be in their own beds at their own house with all their belongings. And Lindsay's parents were very actively involved in staying over and helping out. So it was the best decision that they stay home in their own beds.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So prior to the November of 2022, did you and your husband ever come and stay over the night so that Patrick and Lindsay could go off?
SUSAN CLANCY: We never did stay at their house.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And as far as kind of watching the kids or taking the kids outside of the house during the daytime, did you often take Cora on kind of day trips out to lunch?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yeah. We used to go to lunch together.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: How about Dawson? Did you take him one-on-one out to...?
SUSAN CLANCY: Not as much. He was younger.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And how about Callan? Did you ever take him out of the house without Lindsay?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And are you aware that Lindsay told one of the therapists that she wasn't close with you as in-laws, and that she—
SUSAN CLANCY: I didn't know that, no.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ... that she said she doesn't generally allow the in-laws to watch her children?
SUSAN CLANCY: I did watch the kids.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. But are you aware that she told the therapist that?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Are you aware she told the therapist that she didn't have any particular reason why, and that, "They don't bug me about it either"?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't, I didn't know any of that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now, Lindsay, the defendant, she communicated with you via text about her issues with sleep and the medication she was taking, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And as far as the ER visit where the Trazodone was prescribed, do you recall having a back and forth conversation with her about that it's okay to increase it, if you weren't getting any relief?
SUSAN CLANCY: The doctor told her that, so I repeated that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And so you're aware that she was in fact increasing the dose?
SUSAN CLANCY: I did not know that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Once the defendant, once she was seeing Julie Paul, did you continue to have conversations with her about how she was feeling?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you knew that she was taking some new medications after she saw Julie, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Sorry, these pages are different than...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Mine. At some point, after being prescribed some medication, you recall that Lindsay told you that she thought she developed a benzo dependency, correct?
SUSAN CLANCY: I vaguely remember that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: That would be on November 29th, where she says, "I just deep down inside of me feel that I've developed a benzo dependence after just two weeks of using it, and I feel like no one is hearing that and addressing it, and we keep throwing different meds in the mix that aren't really addressing the real issue." Do you recall that message?
SUSAN CLANCY: It sounds familiar.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And she asks you, or you respond, "So hard. I don't know what to do. So should you not use it?" And she responds, "I guess not, but then I don't sleep," right? Do you recall that?
SUSAN CLANCY: I can't say for certain. It sounds right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay.
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember a lot of specifics.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And ...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: On November 30th ... November 30th, she says ...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And I'm just gonna ...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: I'm gonna show on the screen ...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Here. She says, "I'm not okay, and I'm terrified of taking meds tonight." Do you see that in the green?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And then your response is, "Why are you scared? What happens if you don't take them? What are you afraid of? What about Ambien?" Right? You're actively trying to help her kind of figure out the medication.
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes. There were a lot of medications.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. You're aware she wasn't prescribed all the medications at one time, but just a lot of different combinations were kind of thrown around as options, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: It seemed confusing.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: She also ... She's very clear, and she tells you which medications she's taking, right? Ativan and Remeron.
SUSAN CLANCY: Probably.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And then she also tells you on November 30th, when you're talking about it, she says, "I know they take time to reach a therapeutic level to have the desired effect," right? Do you remember that?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And then you respond, "Exactly." And she tells you that she's just depressed, and she thinks it was brought on by the medication, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. Well, on November 30th at 7:52, "I was never, ever this depressed. It was brought on by the medication." Did you say that, or did she say that?
SUSAN CLANCY: She probably said that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. Now, you were asked about the holidays and Thanksgiving. You remember Thanksgiving? Where did you guys go for Thanksgiving?
SUSAN CLANCY: To my daughter's house.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And do you remember telling the grand jury that during Thanksgiving, things were better?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't recall.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Well, do you remember saying that she said things were better? Do you remember that?
SUSAN CLANCY: Vaguely.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. You were asked, "What was Lindsay like during the big Thanksgiving gathering? What observations did you make?" Answer, "She smiled. The girls all had Thanksgiving T-shirts on that sort of matched. We took a picture. She mostly focused on the kids and interacting with the cousins and the aunts and uncles. At one point, she went off a little into the distance, and I approached and asked her how she was doing, and she said, 'I'm trying hard to get better. I'm still working at it.' I asked about her sleep. I thought that was important, and also the fact that she lost some weight. She didn't have an appetite, and she said things were getting better."
SUSAN CLANCY: Okay.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now, during the holidays, you, in fact, took some time off of work so that you were around a little bit more, correct?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so when you were around a little bit more, did you spend all day every day at their house?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Fair to say you would come sometimes, play with the kids, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Do shopping for her.
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And then you actually went on vacation.
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: You and your husband went to Aruba.
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: How long were you in Aruba?
SUSAN CLANCY: Five or six days, I think.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Yeah, okay. And now moving towards Christmas, you had dinner with them at their house on the 23rd, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. Do you remember breakfast on Christmas Day?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Was that at their house or someplace else?
SUSAN CLANCY: Their house.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And then what did you guys do after breakfast?
SUSAN CLANCY: We went to church.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And fair to say you've previously testified that breakfast was great—
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: …and that church was beautiful?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And in fact, the defendant, she told you that it was great and that she was glad she went to church that day on Christmas Day.
SUSAN CLANCY: She, yes, she did.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And then after that, you're aware they went down to Connecticut to see her family.
SUSAN CLANCY: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now, are you a active member in the Catholic Church?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. So you're aware that murder is considered a mortal sin?
MR. REDDINGTON: Objection.
THE COURT: Yeah. Counsel, can I see you over here?
THE COURT: All right. And what that means is you are not to consider it for any reason or any purpose. Okay? All right. Counsel.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So you were aware, Mrs. Clancy, about the stay at McLean Hospital from January 1st to January 5th, correct?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And did you come to the house to help with the kids during that time period?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And fair to say when she came home on the 5th, there was a party for Cora on the 7th?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Did you go to the birthday party?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Were you at the house much between January 7th and January 24th?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Do you recall previously reporting that you hadn't been at the house?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And during that time period, you never took the kids on a day trip or for a visit?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't recall.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And were you aware that between January 7th and January 24th that Pat and Lindsay went to the Cape Codder with the kids?
SUSAN CLANCY: I'm aware of that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And that they went to the Museum of Science with the kids?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And that Pat left Dawson and Callan home, or excuse me, left… Yeah, Dawson and Callan home to go take Cora skiing. Were you aware of that?
SUSAN CLANCY: It sounds accurate to me.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: On the ski trip, did they ask you to come over and stay with Lindsay while she was with the other kids?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you were asked on direct examination about Lindsay going to see providers, and you said, "I think she was begging for help," right?
SUSAN CLANCY: She was.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Did you attend any of those meetings with her therapists—
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: …or doctors?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So you don't know what she told the providers, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't, no.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you don't know what kind of help she asked for other than medication, do you?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And do you know whether there was any other options offered to her other than McLean, like a partial hospitalization program or intensive outpatient? Were you aware of those options?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And do you know if she went?
SUSAN CLANCY: She went to Women and Infants.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So that's the one day where Pat dropped her off and went skiing and then came back, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: I believe so.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Nothing further.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Reddington, redirect.
MR. REDDINGTON: So you ... She asked you about options that were available to Lindsay, correct?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And you mentioned one of them was that she could go to the Women and Infants program in Rhode Island that specializes in perinatal and postpartum, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: You know that she went there, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: You know she was turned away because she was overmedicated, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: You also know that they gave her numbers to call suicide hotlines, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: She called twice, not once, but twice, and again was turned away. Isn't that right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you, ma'am.
THE COURT: All right. Commonwealth.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Just on that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So you're aware she was turned away because she told you she was turned away, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't remember the details of that visit or that day.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: You didn't review the records, did you?
SUSAN CLANCY: No.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So you're not aware that they actually deferred to Pat and Lindsay reporting over medication?
SUSAN CLANCY: I remember something being said that she wasn't a candidate for that program. That's what I recall being told by Patrick and Lindsay.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And that's because she ... Everything she described was reported connected to medication and occurred well after what's considered the postpartum period, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't know.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Well, you're a labor and delivery nurse. You know the postpartum period could be up to a year, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: I've heard it could be longer.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: But generally it's within the first 12 weeks that you start to see some symptoms.
SUSAN CLANCY: I don't know.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: You're aware that she was sent from Women and Infants with actually several options, where it included inpatient treatment for medication management, a partial hospitalization program focused on general mental health, or continued outpatient management. That's what she was sent away with.
SUSAN CLANCY: Okay.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Nothing further.
MR. REDDINGTON: May I, one more?
THE COURT: Go ahead, one.
MR. REDDINGTON: So outpatient management, that would include somebody like Jollotta, right?
SUSAN CLANCY: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Do you know that Women and Infants called Jollotta and she never called them back?
SUSAN CLANCY: I didn't know that.
THE COURT: Commonwealth, anything on that?
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ma'am. You may step down. Thank you.
THE COURT: All right. Well, members of the jury, this is one of those stops that I told you about we're gonna have, kinda throughout today. So I'm gonna ask you to go back to the jury room, hopefully just for a short amount of time, and then we'll bring you right back in, and we'll continue with the evidence. Okay?
BAILIFF: All rise for the jury's exit.
BAILIFF: Jurors have exited the court. This court's in session. Please be seated.