2.Lindsay Rosshirt — Direct/Cross
200 linesMS. SPRAGUE: Thank you, Your Honor. The Commonwealth calls Dr. Lindsay Rosshirt.
THE COURT: Good morning, Doctor.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Good morning.
THE COURT: Attorney Sprague.
MS. SPRAGUE: Thank you. Good morning. Can you please state and spell your name for the record?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Lindsay Rosshirt, L-I-N-D-S-A-Y R-O-S-S-H-I-R-T.
MS. SPRAGUE: And what do you do for a living?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I'm a pediatrician.
MS. SPRAGUE: Where do you work?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I work at Quincy Pediatrics.
MS. SPRAGUE: Back in 2023, where did you work?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: South Shore Medical Center.
MS. SPRAGUE: And how long had you worked there at that point?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: In 2023, I think I had been there for about seven years.
MS. SPRAGUE: And could you just briefly describe for us your educational and training background that enables you to be a pediatrician?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes. I completed medical school at UConn and then did my pediatrics residency at Mass General.
MS. SPRAGUE: And when you were working at the South Shore practice in 2023, were you assigned as a pediatrician for the Clancy family?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And how long had you been their pediatrician?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I'm sorry. How long had I... Can you repeat that question?
MS. SPRAGUE: How long had you been the family pediatrician for the Clancys?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I believe I started seeing them around 2019.
MS. SPRAGUE: And in the practice that you were in at that time, was it just yourself or were there other doctors and nurse practitioners and staff that would treat and see patients?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: It was a somewhat large group.
MS. SPRAGUE: And so would you always be the one treating the Clancy children, or would some of your associates sometimes see the children?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I did all the checkups, but if there was a sickness and I wasn't there that day, they would be seen by another provider.
MS. SPRAGUE: And by checkup, are you referring to a physical or well visit?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And then if, for example, one of the children were ill and the family called to make an appointment, they would see who's available?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes. They would always check my schedule first, but often have to see someone else.
MS. SPRAGUE: And would you have access to their records as their lead pediatrician to review if they came in for a sick visit or something like that to keep yourself updated?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yeah. Often at the time of the checkup is when we will go back and see what visits they've had since the last time we saw them.
MS. SPRAGUE: This time we'd move to submit the pediatric records from South Shore Medical Center for Cora, Dawson and Clancy.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. REDDINGTON: By agreement.
THE COURT: They may be admitted.
MS. SPRAGUE: Thank you.
COURT REPORTER: Exhibit 216.
MS. SPRAGUE: If we could focus for a moment on Callan Clancy. He was born in May of 2022, correct?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: That sounds right. Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And you were his pediatrician from the time he was born?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: While you were his pediatrician, did his mother, Lindsay Clancy, ever talk to you about Callan having issues taking a bottle?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Not that I can remember.
MS. SPRAGUE: Was there anything out of the ordinary health-wise with Callan?
MS. SPRAGUE: Was there any issues or were there any issues with him meeting his milestones?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: No, I... No.
MS. SPRAGUE: What about Dawson Clancy? Did he have any health issues or concerns that you were aware of?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: If I recall correctly from the notes, I think just a peanut allergy, if I remember. But otherwise, he was healthy.
MS. SPRAGUE: And Cora Clancy, did she have any medical issues?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I think asthma, that was pretty well controlled, but she was also healthy.
MS. SPRAGUE: Now, in your role as a pediatrician, are you aware of postpartum issues, and are there certain things that you look for in new moms when you're treating babies?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes. We're certainly aware of it, and we try to look for any kind of outward signs at some of the initial newborn visits. Do you want me to elaborate—
MS. SPRAGUE: Yes, please.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: ... on that? So for example, things we might look for would be if a mom is, kind of has a flat affect or not really making eye contact or tearful or having trouble bonding with the baby.
MS. SPRAGUE: And if there are those issues that you see, do you document them in the medical records?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And what do you do in terms of treatment or care when you see those things?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yeah. So since we're obviously caring for the child, we are not really able to diagnose or manage anything for the mom, but we do try to connect her with resources. Whether Massachusetts has some postpartum resources, or often we'll refer to, have her try to contact her OB.
MS. SPRAGUE: When you were interacting with Lindsay Clancy when you were treating her three children, did you ever see the need to refer her for any of those services?
MS. SPRAGUE: And did you ever see any of those visible signs that you talked about, the flat affect or anything like that, when you were interacting with her?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I don't remember anything like that, no.
MS. SPRAGUE: Now I wanna ask you about some of the things that are in the medical record that the jurors will see so that you can just kind of explain what they'll be looking at.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Mm-hmm.
MS. SPRAGUE: Showing you a record here from January 18th, 2023.
MS. SPRAGUE: Have issues with the brightness. I'll just bring it to you.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Mm-hmm.
MS. SPRAGUE: If you just look that over and is that consistent with the medical records from your practice?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Thank you.
MS. SPRAGUE: And so, for example, with this visit, Callan Clancy, seven-month-old male, here with Mom for bilateral ear pulling and fussiness. So is that typical in the medical records where you'll document the patient being seen, the age, who they're there with, and what the issue is?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: Okay. And how do you get a history, say when a kid comes in and they're sick—
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Mm-hmm.
MS. SPRAGUE: How do you get the history of their symptoms and what's going on with them?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: So we usually do a brief review in the chart just to know what their, anything on their so-called problem list for medical conditions. And then in the room we ask the parent the story. In pediatrics usually we have to rely on a guardian.
MS. SPRAGUE: Especially when it's, like, a seven-month-old who can't speak for themselves.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Right. Mm-hmm.
MS. SPRAGUE: So it would be whichever parent or person is there giving you their concerns and the symptoms and communicating with what's—about what's going on?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And if there were any issues with communicating with the parent present, would that be documented in the medical records?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And you saw Cora Clancy on January 24th, 2023 for a physical, correct?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And as you stated earlier, prior to seeing her for the physical, did you look over her chart to see if she had been in recently with any illnesses or anything like that?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes. I would have done that.
MS. SPRAGUE: And so would you have seen this note when her mother brought her in on December 27th, 2022, with some vomiting and sore throat?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm.
MS. SPRAGUE: And again, if there had been concerns at that appointment, they would have been noted in the record?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And then as the pediatrician, if you'd seen some concerns, would you have addressed them with the parent?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And that didn't happen on January 24th, correct?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Correct.
MS. SPRAGUE: And speaking specifically to January 24th, 2023, that was Cora's five-year physical. Is that right?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And sometimes in the record it's called a well visit?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And what were your observations of Cora that day?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: As far as I can recall, it was a very normal visit. Cora seemed to be behaving normally. I mean, no kid's happy to be there for a checkup, but I didn't notice anything out of the norm. She seemed perfectly well-behaved and Mom seemed appropriate as well.
MS. SPRAGUE: Mom seemed appropriate?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: Did you notice anything out of the ordinary about Lindsay Clancy's demeanor or behavior or interaction with you?
MS. SPRAGUE: Was she able to give you a history of how Cora was doing and what milestones she was meeting?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: Was she able to answer your questions?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: Did you have any trouble understanding her at any point?
MS. SPRAGUE: Did she seem to have any trouble understanding you?
MS. SPRAGUE: Did she have, you know, visible tears or a flat affect or anything like that?
MS. SPRAGUE: Did you have a discussion with Lindsay Clancy about Cora having some stomachaches?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MS. SPRAGUE: And what was your evaluation of that and your recommendation?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: So we talked about the belly pain she was having. It, from what I could tell, I thought constipation might be possible 'cause it's something we see a lot in kids. So I had suggested we try MiraLAX, which is a common stool softener we use, and wanted her to see me within two weeks if Cora wasn't feeling better.
MS. SPRAGUE: Okay. And when you recommended the MiraLAX, was Lindsay Clancy receptive to that?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes, I believe so.
MS. SPRAGUE: I have no further questions. Thank you.
THE COURT: Attorney Reddington.
MR. REDDINGTON: Good morning.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Good morning.
MR. REDDINGTON: What's the timeframe that you dealt with the Clancy children? 'Cause you took care of all three of them, right?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: All three.
MR. REDDINGTON: Right.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yeah. Cora I believe was around nine months old. So I wanna say that I saw them from about 2019 until 2013.
MR. REDDINGTON: And—when you would see the children, who would bring the children to see you for the checkups? Was it Lindsay or was it Lindsay and Patrick, or was it—
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I think that Lindsay and Patrick came together for one of the one-of-course checkups, but as far as I can remember, every other visit was always Lindsay.
MR. REDDINGTON: And being an experienced pediatrician and being very protective of your patients, little kids, you're always looking to see if there's anything out of the ordinary, bruising, anything indicative of any type of psychiatric problems they may have, stunted growth or anything. Is that correct?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: You're always on the lookout for anything else, even if it's not mentioned to you, right?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Right. Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did you ever notice anything like that on the Clancy kids?
MR. REDDINGTON: Did they seem healthy?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did they seem happy?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And in all the times that you would see Lindsay with the kids at your office—
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... Did she appear to be a doting or concerned mother for the children?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes, she did.
MR. REDDINGTON: One of the questions that the DA had asked you is whether or not you're familiar with postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, things of that nature.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: Would you agree with me, in your experience, extensive as it is, that a person can be suffering from postpartum depression and/or postpartum psychosis and still talk?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I'm not sure it's... I have enough expertise to—
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: ... Explain, to answer that well.
MR. REDDINGTON: That's fine. That's fine. Thank you.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: Was Lindsay the type of person, to your observation and your treatment of her, that she was kind of like a... Was she like a complainer? Would she complain to you about the kids being a pain in the neck, and that she was aggravated with the children or anything like that?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Not that I remember, no.
MR. REDDINGTON: In all of the times that you had seen her, let's focus, say, on the year of 2022—
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: ...up through 2023, January 24th, when you saw the children... I'm sorry, Cora, I believe it was, last. Counsel had asked you whether or not you made any observations that you would have noted if she appeared to be suffering from any symptomology of postpartum. Do you recall her asking you that?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: All right. And in your treatment of the children, and in your observations of Lindsay, did you know or did she indicate to you, or did Patrick indicate to you, or anybody indicate to you, that in October of 2022 she was seeing a psychiatrist?
MR. REDDINGTON: Do you know Dr. Tufts?
MR. REDDINGTON: Did you know that after seeing Dr. Tufts, that she was placed on a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, SSRI, Zoloft?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: No, I didn't know that.
MR. REDDINGTON: And again, this is... You're the pediatrician. It's not your job to pry. I mean, if somebody... If you see something, you would make note of it and try to help them out. But I mean, if they don't tell you, you don't know, right? Did you know... Fair to say that you didn't know that she was then seeing a Dr. Paul, and then Paul left the practice, and doctor, nurse practitioner Jollotta?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I didn't know that.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay. Do you know them?
MR. REDDINGTON: The only reason why I ask if you know them is that you... South Shore Medical Center, is that affiliated with South Shore Hospital?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I believe it was already owned by the hospital at that time.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: Latiesha Dukes, nothing about her?
MR. REDDINGTON: Any medications? Did you know about her being on any medications?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: No, I didn't.
MR. REDDINGTON: She didn't complain to you and say that she had insomnia, and that she was unable to sleep or having difficulty like that?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Not, not that I can remember.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did you know that she called the suicide hotline twice towards the end of December?
MS. SPRAGUE: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I did not know that.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: Did you know that she had been to Mass General Hospital, and then ultimately on New Year's of 2022 into 2023, self-admitted to McLean Mental Institution?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I didn't know that.
MR. REDDINGTON: So when you saw her on January 24th, you did not know that she had been to McLean Hospital and had been on medications or anything, right?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: That's correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: 'Cause again, she wasn't a complainer.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: She was a hell of a mother, wasn't she?
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: I always thought she was a good mom.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you.
THE COURT: Redirect?
MS. SPRAGUE: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, doctor.
LINDSAY ROSSHIRT: Thank you.