4.Emily Thorndike — Testimony Excluded; McLean Records Permitted
405 linesTHE COURT: All right. Attorney Reddington.
MR. REDDINGTON: It's up to Your Honor as to the voir dire on McLean Hospital witness or Dr. Spinelli. I know—
THE COURT: All right. Counsel, what does she see in regards to the timing on—
THE COURT: Members of the jury, this is another one of those moments I've gotta talk to counsel about a matter that I've gotta talk to them outside of your presence. All right? So I thought we'd do it at this point and excuse you till 2:00. We'll take up the next witness, but we're gonna stay in here, and we're going to take up that other matter. All right? And so with that during the break, remember, same instructions. Don't talk about it. Don't do any research about it. Don't read anything. Don't go anywhere in regards to this. And I'll see everybody at 2:00. Okay.
BAILIFF: All rise, please. Jurors exiting.
BAILIFF: Jurors have exited the courtroom. This courts the session. Please be seated.
THE COURT: All right.
THE COURT: All right. And counsel, are we ready to do the voir dire of Ms. Thorndike?
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you. She should be right outside.
COURT CLERK: [oath administered]
THE COURT: Good afternoon.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Good afternoon.
THE COURT: All right. Attorney Reddington.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you, Judge. Tell us your name. Spell your last name for the record, please.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Emily Thorndike. T-H-O-R-N-D-I-K-E.
MR. REDDINGTON: And what town do you live in?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I actually live in Brooklyn, New York, but I summer on Cape Cod. I'm spoiled like that.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay.
EMILY THORNDIKE: So I'm in Chatham.
MR. REDDINGTON: So where do you live now?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Brooklyn.
MR. REDDINGTON: But where are you liv— Are you—
EMILY THORNDIKE: In Chatham.
MR. REDDINGTON: Chatham?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And what do you do for work?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I own my own therapy practice right now, so I'm practicing as a business owner and a therapist.
MR. REDDINGTON: And what is the name of the business?
EMILY THORNDIKE: It's called Wise Mind Therapy Practice.
MR. REDDINGTON: What is it?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Wise Mind.
MR. REDDINGTON: Wise Mind?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay. And where is that located?
EMILY THORNDIKE: It's a virtual practice, so yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: And how long have you been doing that?
EMILY THORNDIKE: So I had my own private practice for... I opened that January 2023, and then this past May I expanded. I hired somebody. So technically it's a group practice, but I've owned my own business technically for, what is that? Four years.
MR. REDDINGTON: So tell us your educational background, please.
EMILY THORNDIKE: I went to Dover-Sherborn High School, and I went to Hartwick College, and then I went to Boston College School of Social Work.
MR. REDDINGTON: And what degrees do you have?
EMILY THORNDIKE: So I have my master's in social... Well, I... my BA in sociology. I have my master's in social work, and then I have two social work licenses, I guess. You have to get one before the other, so I only go by a licensed independent clinical social worker, so, but you have to get your... It's very confusing. You have to get two licenses essentially.
MR. REDDINGTON: But you have those licenses—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: ...within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Now, your employment, can you tell us what your employment history was since I guess you got your master's at BC or something?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Since I got my master's at BC, I did my final year internship at McLean Hospital at their trauma program. And then once I graduated, got my MSW, my Master's of Social Work, and then my social work license, I was offered a per diem position at that program. And I did that position for I think it was two to three months, and then I was rehired. I went back to the short-term unit at McLean, which I had previously worked at.
MR. REDDINGTON: So when you say the short-term unit—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: … is that also referred to as the STU?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes. We call it the STU. It's just short-term unit. It's also referred to as AB1, which is admissions building first floor.
MR. REDDINGTON: Now, are you familiar with this case of Lindsay Clancy?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I'm only familiar about it from what I watched before I was sequestered, but other than that, I don't know the case at all.
MR. REDDINGTON: And when you say what you watched before you were sequestered—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: … what does that mean? What did you watch?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I think it was not this past Thursday, but the one before that. I'm not gonna recall the date off the top of my head, but that's when, you know, you had told me that I'm sequestered and to no longer watch the trial or consume any of it.
MR. REDDINGTON: So what were you watching?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I had just been watching, like, the day-to-day, like, the live stream, and just… Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: Why is that?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I'm interested in the case. I honestly got into sorta watching trials from the Karen Read trial, and then I wanted to watch this case, and obviously… Well, I worked at McLean, so I was curious to watch it.
MR. REDDINGTON: And when did you work at McLean?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I started there in 2014, and then I left there in December 2021.
MR. REDDINGTON: So how many years is that?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Oh, seven, seven years, seven, eight months, I think.
MR. REDDINGTON: And what was the nature of your work? What'd you do?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I started as a mental health specialist there, which I think you can sorta try to summarize as—those are the counselors, are sort of directly on the unit with the patients. Our main role is to keep patients safe, really. So you're doing a lot of safety checks. You are putting eyes on patients to make sure they're not trying to harm or kill themselves. And we do crisis intervention, so when those things are happening, because they do, we are the ones to intervene. And unfortunately, there's a lot of restraints that happen on those units, and that's one of our main jobs.
MR. REDDINGTON: So the STU that you refer to, is that… Are there a couple of them at McLean, or?
EMILY THORNDIKE: So I'll try to explain it. When I first started there in 2014, it was one unit with 28 beds. During the time I was there, there was a renovation. They expanded the unit. It's a little confusing, but in 2016, I believe it was, it became two separate units operating the same way. So there's short-term unit north, and then there's short-term unit south, and now south has 22 beds and north has 23. So that's why it, you'll see, like, you know, AB1S or, you know. So they're the same unit, but there's a south side and a north side, if that makes sense.
MR. REDDINGTON: When you were working in that particular unit—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: ...is that the same unit that Lindsay Clancy was in for the four to five-day period?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes. I worked on both north and south for a significant amount of time.
MR. REDDINGTON: And for all those years that you worked there, did you work days, nights, weekends, holidays?
EMILY THORNDIKE: So days and evenings. I preferred the evening shift, but you're supposed to do both, day and evening. I didn't do night. Sometimes you get mandated, and you have to work an evening and a night shift, which is always pretty brutal, but I was day and evening.
MR. REDDINGTON: Now, how about the staffing at STU—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: ...your experience?
EMILY THORNDIKE: So there's always during the... I can sort of start with the week, I guess. There's always four mental health specialists and four nurses during the week for both, for the day shift, and then in the evening it's four mental health specialists and three nurses. And then there's one, one and a half... I don't... It's hard to explain. There's... At night, there's three mental health specialists, and then there's one nurse on north and one nurse on south, and then there's a nurse that goes in between at night to help both sides.
MR. REDDINGTON: And how many beds are in the north and the south STU?
EMILY THORNDIKE: North, north is 23. South is 22.
MR. REDDINGTON: And which one was Lindsay in?
EMILY THORNDIKE: South.
MR. REDDINGTON: Are you familiar with the Code of Mass Regulations or regulations that mandate or require certain staffing levels within that particular unit, the STU of McLean?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes, like the Department of Mental Health regulations there.
MR. REDDINGTON: Can you tell the judge what the, your understanding of the regulations from the DMH would be on staffing?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah. So, the Department of Mental Health has to oversee all of the mental health facilities in Massachusetts, and they have specific requirements for safety regulation, for staffing ratios, how the unit has to be set up. You know, for example, you can't... There was a recent... There was a renovation while I was there to adjust handles on a sink because you could use it to harm yourself. So DMH, there's usually an annual or biannual inspection, and they will go around and they will look at charts, they will look at the unit. So they oversee everything.
MR. REDDINGTON: And do they mandate how many doctors or nurses or safety people would be on a particular unit or—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah, they definitely have those requirements.
MR. REDDINGTON: And what require... What's your understanding of those requirements?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I believe... I don't wanna- I'm not sure exact— Like, I know McLean follows those regulations, but I guess there's potential that McLean might go higher than the ratio. I'm not sure. So you have to at minimum have a certain amount—
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay.
EMILY THORNDIKE: …of staff, but potent— You know, I'm not exactly sure on that.
MR. REDDINGTON: So are you aware in this case that McLean forwarded to the district attorney's office and the court certain discovery—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: …indicating how many doctors, nurses, and, and—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: …safety work... You ha— Did you have a chance to read that?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I did.
MR. REDDINGTON: All right. Is it your understanding that the requirements of the DMH and minimum staffing on, well, let's say on weekends and holidays—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: …for example, does that change year to year, or is that pretty static?
EMILY THORNDIKE: It's never changed. I mean, it didn't change from when I was there and with that document, so I guess that goes to, what, 2023 it was. So it ha— It didn't... That was how it was when I started. Well, I guess one caveat. When it changed from a 28-bed unit to 22 and 23, there was, you know, different numbers because with 28 patients you have to have, you know, a certain number of staff. But so since it's been 22 and 23 patients on those two units, the staffing has not changed from when I started there and from that document that I reviewed.
MR. REDDINGTON: Now, you indicated that you, because of your interest, were watching the proceedings on this case—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: …on what? YouTube or something or—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: …or TV?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Whatever. You can... Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: And you had the occasion to hear the cross-examination of Patrick Clancy by the district attorney. Is that right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And—
THE COURT: You mean the direct.
MR. REDDINGTON: I'm sorry?
THE COURT: The direct of—
MR. REDDINGTON: Sorry.
THE COURT: …Patrick Clancy.
MR. REDDINGTON: You're right. It's been a long week. Okay. Direct examination. And the focus was on the fact that when Lindsay went into the hospital, it was on New Year's Eve. Is that correct?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right. Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: And that she was there for that holiday weekend, and then—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... I think the following Monday was a holiday.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay. And you heard the cross-ex— the direct examination of the district attorney asking about McLean being the number one hospital in the country, McLean having all of these services available to the inmates that are in there, treating them, offering all these fantastic programs on the holiday weekends, in the holidays, as opposed to what Patrick had testified to. Did you see that?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Will you re-ask that question? I think I understand, but...
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay. When you were watching on the television—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... you saw... Or the computer. You saw the questioning of the district attorney—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... of Patrick Clancy.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yep.
MR. REDDINGTON: You heard Patrick Clancy make reference to the fact that his wife admitted herself into the—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... STU—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yep.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... on holiday weekend, New Year's.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes. Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Was there all that weekend.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: Into a holiday.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: And the district attorney then questioning Patrick—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... inquired as to whether he was aware that it was a—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... the best hospital in the country, that there were many doctors and nurses and staff available, and programs available, and Lindsay wasn't interested in any of that. Right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes. That's what I took from it.
MR. REDDINGTON: Now, in your nine y- eight year, however many years of experience—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... that you've had, is that what your understanding was in that unit?
EMILY THORNDIKE: No. That's... Yeah, no. That's not what I was understanding, no.
MR. REDDINGTON: So tell the judge what your understanding was from your experience, hands-on—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Mm-hmm.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... day after day, working in the STU for all of those years.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: But you also were a supervisor of the STU at one point.
EMILY THORNDIKE: I actually wasn't. I became a social worker there, so I guess you could... One way to look at it is that, you know, the social worker and the psychiatrist, you are the treatment team. So you're making all the decisions for the patients. And so the nurses and the mental health specialists, I don't like to create a hierarchy, but they are operating underneath you. So in a way I'm supervising, but I'm not a— I was never a direct supervisor.
MR. REDDINGTON: Now, you came out with a TikTok or—
EMILY THORNDIKE: I did.
MR. REDDINGTON: A reel or whatever you call it.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah, TikTok.
MR. REDDINGTON: And would you agree with me that you were pretty angry when you did that?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah, definitely and emotional.
MR. REDDINGTON: So tell the judge, why were you emotional when you did that TikTok?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Well, it's a lengthy TikTok. It's about 10 minutes. And I was emotional because I felt like what was discussed in court was not aligned with what my experience was. I noted several things. I'll try to summarize some of them. There was mention that there's individual therapy on the unit. There is not. There was mention of seeing a doctor every day. f- I felt like there was some misleading of that. You do see a doctor every day, but on the weekends and on a holiday, it's one doctor who's seeing all of the patients. The meetings can be as short as one minute. Some, many patients decline those meetings. And they aren't, they're... The doctor who's there on the weekend and holidays is seeing 23 patients. So I felt it was misleading to indicate that there's sort of a in-depth doctor session when it's very brief.
MR. REDDINGTON: How about programs that are offered, like making things out of clay and crayons and stuff like that? Is that—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes. There's clay on the unit. It's called Model Magic. It's a non-toxic kid— It's, you know, for k— I mean, it's advertised for kids, but it's on the unit. It's in the nursing station, it's out on the unit. There is a lot of coloring. There's a specific group that I saw in the documents I reviewed called Music and Mandalas. Mandalas are basically adult coloring books. The designs are kinda abstract. You could compare it to, like, looking through a kaleidoscope or something, and you color them in. And Music and Mandalas is a group where you play music and the patients color.
MR. REDDINGTON: So you understand from watching the proceedings that you became emotional over is that Lindsay went in on New Year's Eve with some fairly serious—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: … symptomology. Is that correct?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And Patrick indicated that they were, quite frankly, pretty bluntly disgusted with the help and the care that was allegedly offered to her, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: And you were upset about what you felt was a misleading of this witness based on the questions that were asked. Is that right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And Patrick had made reference to the fact that she was doing coloring, and she was in the groups that was sitting there dealing with the clay and the... Basically they felt that it was not, bluntly, any help.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes, and there's very minimal, like, family contact when the main treatment team is not there, so it's not abnormal that families wouldn't be getting, like, regular or, like, in-depth updates of what's going on. You're, y- and you're sort of supposed to wait until the treatment team comes back, whether it's on a Monday or, in this case, a Tuesday since Monday was a holiday. That's the team who's gonna be working with the patient, so most updates and communication with family and with providers aren't gonna happen over the weekend either.
MR. REDDINGTON: Now, one of the things that occurred, just for the background, is that your TikTok was observed by me.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: And I tried to reach out to you—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... and couldn't find you.
EMILY THORNDIKE: That's correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: And then I had a private investigator, Bob Jones—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... hunt you down kind of and ended up—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... in front of your house.
EMILY THORNDIKE: No, Bob and I were sort of chuckling about that 'cause he never ended up outside of my house, but the rest of it is all accurate. I... Yeah, so he wasn't outside of my house, but the rest of that was true.
MR. REDDINGTON: So he was able to locate you.
EMILY THORNDIKE: He was, yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: He was able to talk to you.
EMILY THORNDIKE: He was, yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Get your contact information.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Provide that to me.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yep.
MR. REDDINGTON: And as a result of that, I reached out to you, and then you indicated that you, at initially somewhat reluctant, but then ultimately agreed to get involved and talk to the judge, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes, yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay. Now, the district attorney is objecting to your testimony, and I believe they're gonna argue that the change from that one-year period. When did you leave working there?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I wanna say my last date was, like, December 18th. I... Since working there, you don't get a lot of holidays off, so out of all my time there, I said, "I'm gonna leave right before the holidays and be able to enjoy that." So I believe it was December 18th, but mid-December.
MR. REDDINGTON: What year?
EMILY THORNDIKE: 2021.
MR. REDDINGTON: 2021.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: And when was Lindsay in there?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Janu- what? December 31st, right? She came in on New Year's Eve, 20... What would that be?
EMILY THORNDIKE: 2022, right? Yeah.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: So in your opinion, is there a change—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... that is significant in the staffing, in the nurse-to-patient ratio—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MR. REDDINGTON: ... in the safety issues, the crayons, the coloring, and all of that? Is there any change from that one year that you left to the time that she was in there?
EMILY THORNDIKE: From the records I reviewed as well, I... Those are exactly the same staffing ratios, and all the groups are the same.
MR. REDDINGTON: So there's no change whatsoever.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Not from what I can tell from what I reviewed.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Mm-hmm.
THE COURT: All right. Commonwealth?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Good afternoon.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Hello.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So you are currently a social worker who does their own... A licensed independent clinical social worker, right? That's—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ... that's the license—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Title, yeah.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ... I mean, you're saying.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: That's really what you kind of go by.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes. I'm a social worker by trade, you could say, but I'm practicing as a therapist.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you do that virtually?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So you don't have a brick-and-mortar where clients come and engage in therapy with you, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: No. Rent is expensive, so right now I'm all virtual.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And you indicated that, in your time at McLean Hospital, that you first started as a per diem, and that was as a mental health specialist, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I didn't start per diem there. I started at a 32-hour position. The per diem, there's another position I held at McLean, which is called a community residence counselor. That was a per diem position. And then the social work position I took after graduating and before I went back to McLean, that... Or sorry, the short-term unit, that was a per diem position.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So the per diem role that you had, how long did you do that role?
EMILY THORNDIKE: On which unit?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Well, you just said.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: When I asked you about working per diem, you said you were the community resident counselor.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right. Yes. I mentioned—
MS. BUCKINGHAM: How long did you do that?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I mentioned two per diem positions, so I just wanted to be clear. I believe it was around a year. It was on the side while I was working on the short-term unit. That was the main unit I worked on. But since I was 32 hours, I was interested in that particular McLean program, so I picked up a shift, you know, every so often. But I was primarily on the short-term unit.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: As what, though? As a mental health—
EMILY THORNDIKE: As a mental health specialist, yep.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so you said once you got your master's, you took on a role of clinical social worker there, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: So yes. Yes, I did.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And that was in September of 2019?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you said you had a chance to review the records that were sent over by McLean, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now, when you were a social worker from September of 2019 to December of 2021—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ... what was your schedule?
EMILY THORNDIKE: So I would come in around 9:00. It was, you could view it as sort of normal business hours. My clinical rounds that I did with all the multidisciplinary staff was at 9:55, so that was kind of a little bit of my start time. But generally probably like 9:00 to 5:00, you could say.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And was that Monday through Friday?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes. I did cover weekends on occasion. Social workers, you know, you're not required to, but it's kind of highly encouraged. So, you know, every once in a while, I would cover a weekend as a social worker.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you're aware that the records that came from McLean Hospital indicate that during the time period of January 1st to January 15th of 2023, that the social worker role was a day position that was Monday through Friday?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And that on January 1st, which was a Sunday, there was no social worker there?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah, I saw that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And on January 2nd, which would've been the observed holiday for—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...New Year's, there was no social worker there?
EMILY THORNDIKE: That's what I saw.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And while you would pick up shifts, the majority of your schedule was 9:00 to 5:00, Monday through Friday—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...from 2019 to 2021?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah. I mean, I did regularly pick up weekends, but yes, primarily I was there during the week.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. Now, you provided Attorney Reddington with some kind of like typed up notes. Do you recall that?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Where you outlined kind of what your experience was on the unit and how inpatients were... how inpatient experiences went, like—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...the schedule and that kind of thing. And you noted that as far as the treatment team, which you referred to yourself as a social worker, worked with a psychiatrist, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right, right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you identified that your ex- in your experience there was three teams: red, green, or blue?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: But you are also aware that the records show that every day during the week, that the treatment team of a social worker and a psychiatrist, there was four social workers and four psychiatrists that were on shift?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So what, where's the fourth?
EMILY THORNDIKE: So you, the numbers aren't equal. So there, the medical director often took residents, so he would have a little bit less of a caseload. The lead social worker on the unit, she would go in between the different units. So she would take a smaller caseload on one unit. So for example, I had eight patients on my caseload, but one of my social work colleagues would have six. So it's not an even distribution of the three, you know. Some of the doctors and some of the social workers just carried a different number of caseloads, so...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: But your testimony today, after having now reviewed the records, is that it's always been four social workers, four doctors?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah. I'm not, I didn't say that there wasn't before. That's...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Well, we don't, that's why you're here, because we don't know—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...what was said before.
EMILY THORNDIKE: I just thought I answered your question, so, but yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you came aware of this case by watching the trial, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so would you say that you were... How many days of the trial did you watch?
EMILY THORNDIKE: All of them up until that point.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: At what point? What day?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I'm not remembering the date exactly. Last Thurs- not last Thursday, but the Thursday before.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: What was the last content of testimony that you remember watching?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I believe it was maybe Patrick's friends or, you know, it, I was aware that there were doctors testify- You know, Mr. Reddington made sure I was not watching anymore, and that there were, you know, doctors coming up that were particularly important for me to not watch.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you were asked by Attorney Reddington here about observing that testimony or the direct examination of Patrick. And I think he mentioned where it was referred to that McLean was the best hospital in the country. Do you recall that being the question that was asked of Patrick Clancy?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I don't, I don't recall.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And in fact, the Commonwealth didn't ask about his opinions of the status of the hospital, but did just verify with reference to records whether or not he knew his wife participated in particular things that were contained within the records. Did you see that in the testimony?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so you're aware that the testimony actually was that, or the question was, were you aware that she declined groups?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And that's based on records you've never seen, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And as far as the contact with the staff and the doctors, meaning nurses or social workers or whatnot-
EMILY THORNDIKE: Mm-hmm.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...you haven't reviewed any of those records, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I have not.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so you don't know the extent, you don't know the extent of what the interaction was with the nurse and the patient-
EMILY THORNDIKE: Sure.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...do you?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I mean, there are some general guidelines that you have to follow. I can't tell you the content within them. But for example, mental health specialists, you are not supposed to meet with a patient longer than 20 minutes because you have other things to do. So I can't speak specifically to what happened in those conversations. But I know the general gist of how everybody's role works.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: But you, when you say everybody's role, did you ever perform the role of a nurse? Like-
EMILY THORNDIKE: No, but I work directly with them. I'm operating... On the job description, it says specifically you're under the direction of the nurse. So I worked directly with nurses.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Do you go through the same training as a nurse?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: As far as the, your, what your knowledge is of mental health specialists, fair to say the last time you were employed as a mental health specialist there and did that work yourself was in May of 2019?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yep.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And then you transitioned to being a social worker, where you worked closely with a psychiatrist and primarily Monday through Friday?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah, psychiatrists, the nurses, and the mental health specialists, you all really work together.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you can only attest to what you would put in a note, right? As far as your contact with a patient as a social worker.
EMILY THORNDIKE: No, you have access to all of the patients on the unit. So I'm able, and it's not a HIPAA violation to do that 'cause we all work together. Sometimes I cover other social workers' patients, so I do have access. You have access to all of the records—
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Well—
EMILY THORNDIKE: ... in everybody's, every patient's file. So you can read everybody's notes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: I guess my question, and that probably was a bad question. But my question is to you.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Mm-hmm.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: When you are the social worker for a patient on the treatment team that you've described—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yep.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ... you enter the information into the note for the social worker that—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ... becomes part of the record?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And those are your words, your observations, your contact?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: You don't write them for other people, do you?
EMILY THORNDIKE: No, but we have to follow a certain format. So for example, we have to write a bio-psycho-social note, which is a fairly lengthy assessment. But there are requ— That's a social work... You know, I learned that in grad school, so I don't know how everybody writes their notes. But we have to follow a pretty strict format to write our notes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And is it your testimony that McLean requires only that each social worker spends a particular period of time or a max amount of time with each patient to do that?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah. I mean, I have eight patients on my caseload. So I have to see eight patients every day. And so you are limited with how much time you can spend with them, 'cause there's several other tasks I have to do. So you really can't spend a significant amount of time with your patients.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: That wasn't my question. My question was, does McLean tell you that you can only spend 5, 10, or 15 minutes with a patient?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes, it's directly told from my, the people above me. It's something that's communicated in a way where you could sort of get in trouble if you're not doing that. So yes, it comes directly from McLean.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And do you have any information, having left there in 2021, that the same people supervising the social workers were giving those same instructions?
EMILY THORNDIKE: I mean, no. I don't know that.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Do you know anything about how many people were actually occupying beds between January 1st and January 5th of 2023?
EMILY THORNDIKE: No. It obviously has a max of, but it... Yeah. So I don't know how many patients were there, but you can have up to 22 there. So, yeah.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you've also indicated in your notes to Attorney Reddington that sometimes the people that are there for a particular period of time have the ability to go out on passes for weekends.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Correct. Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Does that, in your experience—did that tend to happen around holidays?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so you don't know between January 1st and January 5th of 2023 who might've been assigned to a bed there but out on a pass that weekend, do you?
EMILY THORNDIKE: No, I'm not... I don't know what happened that weekend.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And that would affect—how many people are actually occupying the beds would affect the ratio of staff to patient during that time period, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: If I'm understanding the question correctly, I mean, it's the same amount of staff there. Are you saying, like, they were meeting with patients less?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Right. It's the same amount of staff regardless 'cause—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...it's by shift, right?
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So if the bed—the unit has 22 beds in it, but say five people are off on a-
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...pass for that weekend—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...then the same staff that are there—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...for the entire weekend have five less patients they have to round.
EMILY THORNDIKE: No. No, no. You're still assigned... Every patient has to be assigned to a mental health specialist and a nurse. And so when you go on a pass, there's a limit. And day and evening shift, like, the limit of the pass is eight hours. So no matter what, you have to check in with your staff person before you leave for your pass, and you have to check in with your assigned staff when you come back. So there's no patient who's not assigned to somebody. It's just they might not be on the unit the whole time when you're on your shift.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. So if they're not, they might not lose a patient on their load—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...for instance, but that person isn't there that they have to check in with every so often or they have to check in with about groups or keep track of or meet with, right? If they're on a pass and they're out of the facility for eight hours—
EMILY THORNDIKE: Right.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ...they're physically not present, and that worker doesn't have eyes on them.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Yeah. You only check in once per shift anyway. So if they're going, you check in with them before. And when they come back, you check in with them after. But yes, you're not checking in with them when they're off the unit.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you don't know what the numbers were—
EMILY THORNDIKE: No, I don't.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: ... during that time period?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: I don't have any other questions. Thank you.
THE COURT: All right.
THE COURT: All right. All right, Mr. Reddington, I'll hear you on the motion. You may step down. Thank you very much.
EMILY THORNDIKE: Okay. Thank you.
MR. REDDINGTON: Your Honor, I think it's obvious that the witness has the educational background. She certainly has the experience, interestingly enough, of that very unit that Lindsay was on for that period of time. She's well aware of the staffing, indicated to you that the staffing ratio to patient, et cetera, has not changed according to the items that the government has brought here today. That at the time that she was there, it was on a weekend. She indicated about the, you know, the weekend staffing, the holiday staffing. Indicated that they have these coloring programs and programs that Patrick was relating to, and indicates the skeleton crew, if you will, in a sense, on that particular period of time in the holidays, which is very corroborative of what Patrick had indicated in his testimony. So, you know, I'm not looking to bring her in to disparage McLean Hospital. They've done a good job of that themselves. I'm bringing her in to just have evidence as to what Patrick's testimony was relating to what his wife went through when she was in McLean to corroborate the fact as opposed to what was raised on direct exam with the government when they were questioning him about all of these wonderful programs that she apparently was not interested in participating in, which is very, very, I would argue, improper inference for the jury to consider.
THE COURT: All right. Commonwealth.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Your Honor, would object to the witness, and even now after the voir dire, I think it's clear that the best evidence of what the defendant was provided by way of care, treatment, however you wanna call it, is the record in and of itself. It's the record from McLean that documents each and every contact she had with each and every person that was on staff during the time period she was there. Now just to be clear, there's been some indication that she went there on the thirty-first of December. But the records are clear to say she was transported, and she didn't arrive at McLean until the early morning hours of January first. So that's when the records start, and they document her each and every day and each and every step of the way, consistent with how Dr. Goodheart described the process of how you're intake and then how you go through the day and what the general schedule is and the contact with the treatment team. This witness is offering no more information than what's contained within the record and no more information that's what's contained in the records that were just received for the trial subpoena.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And I would suggest to you that the fact that she, in her last role as a social worker from two thousand and nineteen to two thousand and twenty-one, where she was a day staff person that worked Monday through Friday, that wasn't there on the weekends, that she does have a limited amount of information, and it's attenuated, more attenuated than we had initially believed from the dates in which the defendant was at this particular hospital. So I would suggest, or I would object and argue that the best evidence is the records in and of themselves, the records that now have been subpoenaed that can be admitted to identify the particular staff. I'd also like to point out that counsel's referring to offering this to rebut certain inferences or certain statements that the Commonwealth made in the direct examination of Mr. Clancy. But no one has said that McLean is a number one hospital. That wasn't the testimony. That wasn't the question put before him. It was simply what he knew, what he observed, and if he knew what was contained within the record. So there's been no presentation of evidence that would suggest that a person needs to come in to dispute that. The groups are the groups. The court and the jury can see from the record what the groups were, and they can make their own decisions based on what they describe them to be in the record if that was treatment or not treatment. I don't believe that the Commonwealth presented it as treatment. I believe the Commonwealth presented it as resources available to the individual while they were there at the hospital. The treatment piece or the therapy comes from the psychiatrist, which this witness can't testify to 'cause she's not. So I would object for her to being called as a witness for those reasons.
THE COURT: All right. All right. Well, I'm looking at this really as a kinda two issues. First is late disclosure of the witness, and I'm not—and that goes into a whole different analysis. And also analysis under Rule four oh three, which is relating to relevant evidence. And as that rule, proposed rule says, "Evidence may be excluded if its probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of the issues, or misleading the jury, or by considerations of..." Well, that doesn't—that part doesn't apply. Pers- first off, I find this witness credible. I find that—and I appreciate her being willing to offer the information that she has, but that's not always the whole finding on this. And so under cases such as Taylor versus Illinois, Commonwealth versus Dunning, Commonwealth versus Steinmeyer, a couple other cases, I have to look at a number of factors. The first is prevention of surprise.
THE COURT: Well, the Commonwealth has been aware of this issue for at least a week or so, so I'm not considering that evidence of bad faith. There's no bad faith I see from either side in naming this or calling this person at this time. Is the prejudice to the other party? I think there's just limited prejudice, if any, to the Commonwealth. However, though, the final two are the issues that I think are more relevant in this. One is the materiality of the testimony in this. And I find that there's limited materiality—that's hard to say—because mainly this witness hadn't worked there for a year. So there's at least a gap between when she worked there and when the relevant time period is here. There's also, I imagine, different personnel that were working on different shifts. And so there's kind of limited value to that testimony. I also, I don't remember any five-star type inferences. In fact, so I'm not gonna—That's gonna be measured by the jury.
But I didn't see any mentions that this was a five-star facility. And then also the concern is, or the factor is, the effectiveness of less severe sanctions. And I would find that the records that have been brought in pursuant to the subpoena in the last couple of days from McLean's talks about the staffing levels on holidays and not on holidays. So if there's a question of whether or not there was a, quote-unquote, skeleton crew that was on, on for those at least the first two days of this time that Ms. Clancy was there, that's reflected in the records. There are also, in the records here is a list of whatever programs were offered, and also when they were offered. So if there's a question of less programs being offered on a holiday than during the week, those are contained in the records. And so I'm going to deny the defendant's motion to call this witness, but I am going to allow the defendant, if the defendant wishes, to submit those McLean's records specifically regarding the staffing and the programs that are available, not just on that weekend, but for the week. And I think there's records in there for the week before. So there could be a comparison between what was available to Ms. Clancy during the week and what was available to her on a holiday weekend. So that's gonna be my finding.
THE COURT: I'll issue a written ruling on this, but I just kinda wanted to give the parties at least some idea, as well as the witness who's been here, I know, a couple of days. I just kinda wanted to thank her for that. So with that, we'll be in recess till two fifteen. And we'll come back and resume the trial. Okay.
BAILIFF: Court, all rise.
MR. REDDINGTON: I know it's a technicality, but no way objection.
THE COURT: Duly noted. Thank you.
BAILIFF: We're back in session. You may be seated.
THE COURT: All right.
COURT CLERK: Your Honor, for the purpose of the record, when we return back from the trial, formal request Lindsay Marie Clancy. All parties are present excluding the jury.
THE COURT: All right. Counsel?
MR. REDDINGTON: I would ask if we could proceed.
THE COURT: All right. Sure.
BAILIFF: All rise, please, Your Honor.
BAILIFF: Court is back in session. You may be seated.
THE COURT: All right. Well, everyone, thank you for your patience. And I'm gonna ask you for some more patience, all right? Due to an unforeseen circumstance, we're gonna excuse you until tomorrow morning. All right? This is not something we saw coming, but you're not to speculate about what it is. You're not to hold it against either side. It's just something that we have to deal with, all right? And so I'm gonna excuse you till tomorrow morning. I'm gonna remind you, as I have every night for the last number of weeks, don't do any research about this case. Don't talk about it. Don't read anything. Don't watch anything about this case or similar cases. And with that, we'll bring you back here. We will deal what we have to deal with, and we'll get right back on track. We are still well within the timeline that I gave you regarding this case. But it's just something we can't control. So I'm gonna excuse you till tomorrow with my thanks for your patience. And I'll see you tomorrow morning. All right. Thank you.
BAILIFF: All rise, please.
THE COURT: All right. All right. You may be seated. Yeah. Anything we need to address before tomorrow morning?
MS. SPRAGUE: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. So we will be in recess till tomorrow morning at nine o'clock. Thank you, everyone.
MS. SPRAGUE: Thank you.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you.
BAILIFF: Court, all rise.