2.Nicholas Roberts — Direct/Cross
178 linesMS. BUCKINGHAM: The Commonwealth would call Nicholas Roberts as its next witness, please.
BAILIFF: Can you stop right there and raise your right hand for the clerk, please?
COURT CLERK: Good morning. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony and the evidence you shall give to the court and the jury in the matter now pending between the Commonwealth and the defendant, Clancy, shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: I do.
COURT CLERK: You may have a seat.
BAILIFF: Watch the step, please.
THE COURT: All right. Good morning, sir.
THE COURT: All right. Counsel.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Thank you. Good morning.
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Good morning.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Could you please tell the jurors your first and last name?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: It's Nicholas Roberts.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And where do you currently work?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: I work for a company called Thermo Fisher.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: What is that? What do they do?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: They sell plenty of laboratory-based products, including refrigeration. They sell solvents. They do instruments as well.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Prior to working for that company, did you work for the Massachusetts State Police Crime Lab?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: I did.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And in what unit did you work for the crime lab?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: I was in the toxicology unit.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: How long did you work for the crime lab?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: For about nine years.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And in working for the crime lab, what kind of training and experience did you have to work in the toxicology unit?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: So, prior to being hired, I have both a bachelor's and a master's degree in applied forensic science with a concentration in chemistry and toxicology. I also have—the master's is in forensic toxicology. While being hired on the job, they provide training for all the in-house stuff that we test for, which includes not only a theory-based training, but also practical stuff so that you can analyze and run all the tests that we do in-house.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And as far as your work in the toxicology unit, fair to say, in January of 2023 or February of 2023, you were what's referred to as a forensic scientist II, correct?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And throughout your time at the Massachusetts State Police Crime Lab, did you have to undergo competency tests and proficiency tests?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And why is that? Why do you have to do that?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: So mainly it's to—
MR. REDDINGTON: I know the gentleman—
THE COURT: Hold on. One at a time. Okay.
MR. REDDINGTON: I'm just saying, I know he's qualified, and I have no problem with his credentials and his testimony.
THE COURT: All right. All right. Counsel.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Thank you. eh, Sir, in working at the State Police Crime Lab, did you just work in the toxicology unit, or did you work in any other units in your time there?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: No, only in toxicology.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. Now, as it pertains to the toxicology unit, fair to say the State Police Crime Lab has a specific set of protocols and procedures that are followed in every case?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And at that time in February of 2023, was the State Police Crime Lab using the batch review process?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so, when the state police use this process, there are a number of different technicians or forensic scientists that work on any given case. Is that fair to say?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And at the end of it, one analyst is responsible for reviewing all the data and authoring a report.
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And based on your training and experience, if you're that person reviewing the data and authoring the report, do you have the ability to interpret some of the data in the report?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Or data in the testing, I should say.
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes. We review all the data that is provided within the case file.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And did you, during your time at the crime lab in the toxicology unit, stay up to date on various types of drugs and quantifications of those drugs and what that could mean for levels in a person's blood or urine?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes, they keep us up to date on drugs that are commonly used.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So one of the roles in the toxicology unit is for you to report whether substances are detected in blood and urine. Is that fair to say?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And at some point, are you also called upon to interpret, interpret the levels of these drugs?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: So we, in blood we report values, so we get concentrations of the different drugs. And we mainly report them in blood.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And as far as the concentration levels themselves, did you have training and experience on interpreting those levels?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: We usually get training on the effects of the drugs. It's hard to say with some drugs as well as some people what one level might mean for one person. It might differ and have different effects on another.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And fair to say that's a limitation of just reviewing blood and not knowing anything else about a case, right?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: That, yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. At the toxicology unit, at the crime lab in... Is there a limitation as to how or what types of drugs can actually be quantified or given concentration levels?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes. We only quantify certain drugs.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And what happens if there are other drugs present, and there's a request for quantification or concentration levels? What does your lab do with that?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Usually they're sent out to another lab in order for testing.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And are you familiar with the NMS lab?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Is that, or was that at that time, a common lab that would be sent drugs that you could not quantify in your lab?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. I'm gonna direct your attention to the lab number of 23-016...
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Excuse me, 01723. It's a case that you were the reporting analyst on, correct?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And fair to say that there were several items that were submitted to the toxicology unit as specimens?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Including blood, plasma and urine?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And did you work with other members of the toxicology unit to have those specimens screened and then further tested?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes. The batch process was followed.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And as far as any screening tests, did you yourself do any screening tests on these items?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: What screening test did you do?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: The screening for the alcohol.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And was there any alcohol present?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And in the screening for alcohol, does it just tell you whether it was detected or not detected?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And so when you don't have a result, there's nothing further to do?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now, as far as the blood that was tested in this case, and the urine, you were aware that there were tests, screening tests done for what's called the ELISA screen, benzodiazepines, and general unknown screens for these samples, correct?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes. That's usually our protocol.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And in any of those circumstances were there positive results?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And as it pertained to the positive results, what's your understanding of what was positive?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: So to my knowledge, it was positive for the benzodiazepine panel in ELISA. That would've gotten further confirmatory testing done on it to see the levels as well as the individual types of benzos that were present in the blood. And the same was for the urine as well. We also identified a few substances via our general unknown screen, which was confirmed in blood and urine.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Now, as far as—
THE COURT: Counsel, may... Is there an agreement as to—
MR. REDDINGTON: Yes.
THE COURT: ...whose blood is being tested at this point instead of just by the number?
MR. REDDINGTON: Yes.
THE COURT: I mean, it might be easier for everybody, for the jury to follow.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: So would Your Honor just like me to read the results?
THE COURT: No. Just instead of referring to it by a number. Well, let me see you at sidebar.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Sir, I tell you that your report was previously entered as Exhibit 183. Have you had the opportunity to review your report before coming today?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so the lab number that we've been referring to, you're aware that the person associated with that lab number was actually a woman by the name of Lindsay Clancy?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. Now as far as the testing that was done, you received results to the positive benzodiazepines in the screen, and then it was confirmed, correct?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: How many benzodiazepines were present?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: There were at least four or five.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And were you able to get concentration levels from the blood samples after that screen and the confirmatory tests?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And again, already in evidence, but the toxicology report for item 10-101 on the blood with those benzodiazepines, there's diazepam, correct?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Nordiazepam?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Oxazepam?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yep.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Temazepam?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And lorazepam?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And as far as your review of the testing on those substances and the concentration levels, did anything about any of those levels stand out to you as far as based on your training and experience?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Only that they were reportable.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. Are you familiar whether they're in any sort of therapeutic level for any of those drugs?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: I'm not sure.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. You mentioned there were also other substances that were detected in the general unknown screen, correct?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And that would've been mirtazapine, lamotrigine, quetiapine, quetiapine metabolite, and trazodone?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And was your lab able to get concentration levels for those?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And so what did you do, or what was done with the samples or the specimens as it pertained to those substances?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: To my knowledge, they were sent to NMS Labs.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And you've previously stated that you are trained on effects of certain types of drugs, but your limitation is you don't know how it affects a particular individual, correct?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Correct.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: These particular five benzodiazepines, do you know where they fall in the type of drug, what the general effects of those drugs are?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: So, benzos tend to be central nervous system depressants.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. And the ones that were detected but you don't have the levels for, mirtazapine, in the list I read, what category are those drugs?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Those tend to be also be central nervous system depressants. Quetiapine in particular is usually known to treat bipolar disorder, schizophrenia.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: And as it pertains to the presence of the five benzodiazepines, your testing is limited in that you don't know whether that was from one medication or multiple medications, correct?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Correct, because the nordiazepam, oxazepam, and temazepam tend to be metabolites of diazepam.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Okay. I have no further questions.
THE COURT: All right. Attorney Reddington.
MR. REDDINGTON: Morning.
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Morning.
MR. REDDINGTON: How you doing?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Not too bad, yourself?
MR. REDDINGTON: All right. Just a couple of brief questions. First of all, would you... This would be a blood sample that was taken from Lindsay on a particular, like, one day. This is not a panel of a bunch of different samples, right?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: To my knowledge, there would have been a few different test tubes submitted to us. I'm not sure—
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay, test tubes. But when you draw the—in other words, when you draw the blood it would basically be the same time that they put it in different test tubes?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes. I'm not familiar with these specific ones, like if they were done over a span of time. But usually—
MR. REDDINGTON: That's fair. That's fair enough. I mean—
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yeah.
MR. REDDINGTON: ...but you have the test tubes, and you know that it's Lindsay Clancy's blood, right?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: And you'd agree with me that that's a fairly large number of drugs and metabolites that are in that particular blood sample, right?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: I have seen more.
MR. REDDINGTON: I'm sure. But nevertheless, that's still a large number of drugs though, right?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yeah. That's quite a few.
MR. REDDINGTON: And you don't know, as, working your job for the state police at that time, you don't know how many of these drugs are coming from scripts, prescriptions, and things of that nature, right?
MR. REDDINGTON: One of the things that you had mentioned were metabolites, and you said that... 'Cause the district attorney asked you about different benzodiazepines, this Pam, that Pam, this Pam, that Pam, and then you responded and said, “Yeah, but there's a lot of metabolites involved in that,” right? What does that mean?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: So a metabolite is just a breakdown of anything, usually by the body. So you have what we call a parent drug, and the body, if you ingest that, the body would then break it down or put it into a more digestible form in order to get rid of it.
MR. REDDINGTON: Okay. So when you have a number of metabolites, for example, someone may have a prescription for amitriptyline or a prescription for Zoloft or Ativan or something, and they take the pill, and it's in their system, and then over time it would metabolize, and there'd be different Pams or whatever it is that would break down into the blood. Is that right?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. REDDINGTON: How about tetrahydrocannabinols, THC, marijuana? What was the level on that?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: To my knowledge, we didn't find any.
MR. REDDINGTON: No marijuana, right?
NICHOLAS ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. REDDINGTON: Thank you very much, sir.
THE COURT: All right. Attorney Buckingham, any redirect?
MS. BUCKINGHAM: No, thank you.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, sir. You can step down from there.
BAILIFF: Watch your step, sir.
THE COURT: Thank you. Commonwealth.
MS. BUCKINGHAM: Your Honor, at this time, upon agreement, I'd ask to admit as the next exhibit just a chart that the parties have agreed upon that lists the brand names of some of the drugs that have been spoken about throughout the course of the trial, as well as what they were also known as to, for the ease of the jurors.
THE COURT: All right. So does—
MR. REDDINGTON: Yes. That's by agreement, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. All right, so by agreement, that may be admitted.
COURT REPORTER: Exhibit 205.